My response to white tears and the argument that white ppl can be Rastafarian too... It’s a Creole Religion. A religion of the African Diaspora born out of the forced enslavement and continual suffering and marginalization of peoples of African peoples on the island of Jamaica and across the world. A real Rastafarian would laugh in your face. Everything is absolutely NOT for your consumption. Black suffering created hip-hop, reggae, Rastafarianism, etc. you have not endured Black suffering and you cannot even begin to appreciate to depths of pain from which these art forms and religions springs. These things heal us and everyday reminds us that we are people and that our ancestors were people that suffered in unspeakable ways for the greed and wealth of most Europeans and European countries to this day, but you want to try it on and see how it fits? No. No. No. No. →
No, jackass, you got it wrong.
Firstly, Rastafarianism is more than just a reaction to European dominance. Rastafarianism is a religion which people may embrace for a variety of reasons, including agreement with its ethical systems or simple belief in its cosmology. It’s not just a massive “fuck…
With this I agree. It might even because I fall into this kind of trap where I let my participation in movements for equality form into some type of antagonism between people who believe the same I do vs. those who don’t. I have to remind myself that you are trying to convince and persuade those who aren’t on your side (because usually they are the dominant group that holds the power). Thanks for the enlightenment.
no, you’re wrong too
jesus on the fucking cross, what is wrong with you people.
What is so abhorrent to you about the notion that Black people, and people across the diaspora could have something that is their own, something that patently, by its very nature, resists whiteness.
ain’t no one trying to “convince” the oppressors of shit.
People are just trying to live and breathe and have something their own.
Well, few points to make here.
1. I wasn’t speaking specifically on the topic of Rastafarianism, as it is something I don’t fully understand yet. I do know a little about cultural appropration, and how white people attempting to join Rastafarianism dilutes the very core of what is is about. Nothing is abhorrent about black people having a sub-cultural group of their own. I should have made that clearer.
2. I am commenting on my personal belief in certain movements for equality (which I see now might have been irrelevant), and how when engaging in discourse those who fight for it must remember the point is to convince those who have the power/dominance toward their point of view, because those who argue/fight for race/class/gender/sexual/etc. equality often argue from a position of less power, and so long as they are not able to convince at least some of those with power to their point of view, or else force them, nothing will be done. (I think I worded that terribly, try to understand what I meant).
I was unclear, and I was not trying to say that black people wanting to have a group of their own that excluded white people was inherently wrong. Sorry.
you’re still wrong.
it doesn’t matter if you’re addressing Rastafarianism specifically since that was the original context of the post.
both you and hakawatha are fundamentally incorrect.
you were perfectly clear, as was I.
Appeals to the oppressor(s) do not work. At best, it is a circular plan to base your ideologies on such appeals. Oppressor(s) do not give up power because they suddenly realize how illogical their position is. They give up power because they’ve had it proven to them that those with less power are not willing to accept the status quo any longer.
Nearly every leader of any sort of significance in the fight for human rights and equality has stated, when asked by someone of the oppressor class: Go back to your own people and make them change.
Not because of rationality, not even because of fair or equitable debate. But because oppressors can only be overthrown by the practiced, concerted, deliberate efforts of the oppressed to create and define their own social and power structures.
OP, if I’m not mistaken, has no desire or investment in “convincing” white people (in the specific case she is speaking to) to stop being oppressive. Just in getting white people to back the fuck off out of things that are not theirs to claim.
If you think that the fight for basic human rights and, really, being seen as human is a matter of debate, or should be handled as a debate, then you have no idea what the fuck you’re doing and you need to sit down and quiet up when grown folks are talking.
You have this idea that appeals to the oppressor do not work, but that idea, when applied to this concept, doesn’t work itself, because it makes the tacit assumption that white people consciously and willingly oppress black people. You’re supporting an antagonist us vs. them mentality which doesn’t leave room for any sort of realization on the part of the tacit oppressor that he may in fact be wrong. You can, as I said before, have a straight activist for LGBT rights.
Further, you expand this us vs. them mentality by staking claim to particular artistic styles and religions as being, if you will, the territory of black people. All you’re doing is causing social strife, alienating those who would come to the aid of a noble cause, and perpetuating a historical resentment between two groups of people. In case you need this spelled out, none of those are positive things.
If you think that one racial or ethnic group ought to stake exclusive claim to anything to the point where a struggle for basic human rights becomes hindered, then you have no idea what the fuck you’re doing and you need to sit down and quiet up when grown folks are talking.
no, it doesn’t rely on consciousness of being an oppressor.
appealing to the oppressor relies on them knowing they are being oppressive.
are you fucking high or something?
Further, you expand this us vs. them mentality by staking claim to particular artistic styles and religions as being, if you will, the territory of black people. All you’re doing is causing social strife, alienating those who would come to the aid of a noble cause, and perpetuating a historical resentment between two groups of people.
everything about these two sentences is factually incorrect.
It’s not a wild claim pulled out of someone’s ass that these music genres and this religion came from the blood sweat and tears of Black people. It is verifiable, factual history.
Like….how far up your own ass are you that you think otherwise?
I legitimately can’t even address the second sentence because…just…wow. You are so wrong.
I repeat, FUCK OFF AND STOP FOLLOWING ME
EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS WRONG AND TOXIC
YOUR APPROACH OF APPEALING TO OPPRESSORS IS WRONG
THE WAY YOU CAME AT THE OP WAS WRONG WRONG WRRRRROOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGG
AND YOUR CONTINUED ARROGANCE IS BEYOND INSULTING.
You have no understanding about what you’re talking about, not even from a sterile, whitewashed academic’s perspective. You’re so wrong and you refuse to acknowledge it. Instead, you hide behind….?? What, some kumbaya bullshit that literally ERASES the past 500 years of white oppression and CULTURAL THEFT.
In favor of what? smoothing over the oppressors so they might, possibly, hopefully, see the error of their ways.
You know what happens to Black folks that try to appeal to their oppressors? THEY GET FUCKING KILLED. BY THEIR OPPRESSORS. RIGHT ALONGSIDE THE BLACK FOLKS WHO DON’T TRY TO APPEAL TO THEIR OPPRESSORS.